i have met mclaughlin actually when he tried to stay on the jerry ford white house after nixon resigned, but in any case, there i was on that show. in and after that, it led to, you know, being asked to be on television on other shows and ultimately becoming a regular in 19840on "the mclaughlin group." >> what impact did "the mclaughlin group" program have on this city? >> well, you know, mclaughlin was a genius for television. he could be a very difficult guy to get along with personally, although, i got along with him pretty well, but it was so much faster, and it was -- what it tried to get and succeeded a lot were the more candid outspoken views of people in journalism in washington and not just what they write. it was very fast moving, extremely opinionated, and you know, washington just had not seen anything quite like that. now we see a lot of that now particularly with cable news and so on, but mclaughlin group was a breakthrough and so many people, brian, over the years that have written or said or asked me about it, that somehow they believe, and i don't, but they believe that